I posted the note below to the Arctic Off Roaders and thought I should share with everyone else.
What we don't need is a *beep* match between us and them and I'm hoping that folks can work tgether and that this doesn't become an issue on road/trail use between two different motorized users.
Sounds like you all had a blast. Glad to hear, cause that's what it's all about
I appreciate ChevyKev's words of wisdom, as were not "ignorant sledders" as some of your folks seem to think.
It's to bad you all have to feel that way. I have talked to both your past (John) and current (Nate) club presidents during the last 2 years and asked if we could get together and work something out for both clubs. But so far that hasn't happened.
Both clubs are motorized and I would think we would be able to work something out together, assuming you all would be willing to try and work it out, if not, then we all lose.
Understand that we don't have anything against your ridding your rigs off road, heck, almost all of us have or do do the same. I'm an aviad 4x4er in summer and sledder in winter. The thing that hurts is spending hundreds of dollars and hours to groom a trail and then have it all tore up and left that way.
I have suggested that maybe we can talk about a way to re-groom a trail after you've ridden over it. Again, were willing to discusse it.
Also bear in mind when you say "that club" not everyone your talking to are members of the Fairbanks Snow Travelers.
Anyway, I hope we can work something out and that this doesn't just become a *beep* match between foks who just want to blame others and not find a solution, especially when were both motorized users, I can think of some others groups that would like nothing better.
I support this discussion as well. I am taking suggestions from members in my club but specifically said to my folks...
Let me make this completely clear.
There will be no aggression on an Arctic Offroad trail ride. We are not a band of young thugs out to enforce our beliefs. If a member wants to express our beliefs, we need to do so by using diplomacy and compromise.
How about this, let's propose a dual trail system. Cut a narrower snowmachine trail parallel to the main road that allows for a 4x4-worthy rutted trail but still has a smooth trail leading to the same destination for the snowmachiners? That takes a whole lot of work, so we can do shifts with the FST guys...
another member said...
The fact still remains that there paying to have a PUBLIC road groomed, we don't owe them anything for traveling this road, just as any joe-shmo can drive up there...then what he has to figure out how to make it right in there eyes after that? They have to realize that if there paying to have the road groomed than this is what can happen, people can and will drive on it. They already have miles upon miles of Snowmobile only trails, as well as dog sled only trails, ever seen a 4x4 only trail around here...didn't think so. Nate your offer of making a drag is with good intentions but not very practical, I've built 30 miles of winter trail for vehicles up here twice. The drag you need in order to fix ruts we would generate would have to be very big, very heavy, and would have to be transported by a full size vehicle to and from the trail head each time it was used...that is unless you just left it there, but for what it costs in metal to make it that wouldn't be very practical either. Maybe see how big there groomer is and see if it's possible to only groom have the road, also you'll know when you see groomed snow because it looks like corduroy.
the groomer that is used is an expensive piece. Runs off of diesel and get comparable gas mileage as a motor home.
Yes, I agree it is not the wisest choice to groom a public trail because everyone can run on it, but they do and I am sure that they have no intention of stopping, just like we have no intention of stopping our treks up that trail.
Can we bring some bed springs along with us and the last man drags them out on our way out of the trail? Last year when our arsonist snowmachiner friend got hostile with us, he said somethign along the lines of us cuttign downa tree and dragging it out on our way back. Now I dunno about cutting downa tree every time, but the general idea has merit.
another member said...
Do you think they would be receptive to scheduling trail usage? Seems like the easiest thing would be for us to split the season. Come to an agreement with them on a date late in the winter when there is still enough snow for us to have fun and not enough for them to really enjoy. They can still use it but they will be aware that after a certain date we may make a run.
Either that or we agree to schedule our runs a month in advance and notify them so they do their grooming after we have made our trip.
our vice President Chevy Kev said...
1. I am always up for lunch, especially when it's free!
2. I think both ideas have some merit -
a. some sort ofg something for us to drag to show we are trying to keep peace
b. schedulinga nd letting them know so they at least know....
3. Ryan has a good point. They are choosing to groom a road that is open to all users. And they know this - as was stated in the email. We don't plan on stopping wheeling because there is snow. They see the benefit to grooming and will do so, knowing someone may drive over it.
4. Bottom line is we need to work together to resolve issues between us so that, as they said, we don't give the "greenies" an opportunity to shut both user groups out.
I don't know the specifics of what is going on between the sleds and the jeeps, but I will say this...... (its only my half a cent.)
I enjoy both hobbies. I don't wan't too see one local motorized group mad at another. From what I read, it is a public road, they are grooming a public road, and I know you can't block a public road from the publics use (well the Forest service can but thats another whole gripe!) On the other hand, thier aren't that many snowmachine "trails" out there. They (snowmachiners) have to fight for them just like we (offroaders) do. I don't think it would be any way feasible for us, in a jeep or whatnot to "groom" the trail after a run... We just don't have the equipment. And even you built a "groomer" I don't think you pull it with your average trail rig.
I really don't have anything "constructive" to add to this thread other than that both of us (snowmachiners and off roaders) are both fighting the same enemies when it comes to finding trails. So I ask whoever go to talk with the FST that they please keep that in mind. Also though, don't be afraid to tell them how you feel from an offroaders standpoint (ie its a public road, yada yada....) and hopefully we can come to understanding of some sort...
Hopefully something can be worked out to both parties satisfaction!
so to clarify, Arctic Offroad's stance is that we do not wish to ruin someone else's fun on a public use trail, and we want to work together so that we don't all lose the priveledge of running the trail, sumer and winter. On the other hand, a key point is "Public use", so if you groom this trail, you make it a catch-22 position on running the trail.
In Arctic Offroad, we also have snow machiners and ATV'ers so your words do not fall on deaf or uninterested ears. In fact, we waited until April to run this trail again. Upon further decision, we actually could have waited later in the month as most of the trail proved impassable by the majority of our trail rigs.
A high point of contention is the fact that someone is grooming not only a public trail, but a public road as well. So anyone, not just AO, can run this road and trail. We are organized and well versed in Tread Lightly! policy. Someof our unorganized counterpart offroaders who wish not to join a club may and do just run the trail with reckless disregard.
We also have those that ride with disregard and get attitudes about trail use and who should and shouldn't use a certain trail.
It seems we've had that problem for a lot of years, usually motorized -v- non-motorized, and it's only getting more so. I think Dean post was very well put and as I've said it isn't necessarily FST members causing the problems or being discourtesy to you and yours. And if it is an FST member with the attitude, please know that that individual is not speaking for FST as a whole, only themselves.
Unfortunately it seems as if there are always those who don't or won't try and work out a solution even though one could be found and the issues and concerns resolved. To these folks all I can is "later" because nothing will ever change there narrow mindness and for that we all lose.
