Snow Machine Use In Dalton Hwy Corridor

[john]

From ASSA

We got a call from Mark Neuman on yesterday (March 11th) asking us to get some comments in to him on the Dalton Highway Snowmobile corridor, the bill number is HB 267. Comments must be in by this coming Tuesday. The address is rep_mark_neuman@legis.state.ak.us

There was only a handful of people that spoke at the LIO offices yesterday that were in favor of the corridor, the rest were the 'Not in my backyard' people.

Here is the gist of the legislation from the sponsor web site.

The Article:

“An Act relating to travel by snow machine within five miles of the right-of-way of the James Dalton Highway.”

Posted: March 2, 2010 : v26-LS1207\R
Status: (H) TRA : 2010-01-19
Next Hearing: (H) TRA 2010-03-16 1:00 pm, Room 17
Contact: Derek Miller, 465-6879, Legislative Aide

Since 1980, state law has prohibited virtually all off-road vehicle use within five miles of the Dalton Highway north of the Yukon River. Miners and oil workers are allowed to cross the corridor for business use and local resident snowmachine use is permitted. HB 267 simply ends the longstanding prohibition on Alaskans' right to travel by snowmachine on this public land corridor north of the Yukon River. Many Alaskans believe that travel by snowmachine in the Dalton Corridor is prevented by federal law. Wrong. The problem is state law.

A February 20, 2010 Fairbanks Daily News Miner editorial stated (excerpt):

Some argue that the state must prohibit snowmachines in the corridor to protect wildlife from renegade hunters. If this is a reasonable argument, shouldn't the state apply the same five-mile buffer to the rest of its remote road system? Most of our highways traverse lightly populated areas where law enforcement is spotty.

The Dalton Highway is more remote, yes, but that actually argues against more stringent regulation. Its remoteness, lack of services and unpaved surface discourage most Alaskans from venturing up it – fewer people, fewer enforcement problems.

The blanket prohibition north of the Yukon River is overkill.

HB 267 will allow snowmachine use on the Dalton highway corridor from Oct. 1 to April 30 when soil is frozen and snow covered. The resulting impact on surface vegetation should be minimal. If HB 267 passes, the prohibition on other off-road vehicles would remain. This bill simply offers Alaskans access by snowmachine during the winter months to public lands from a public highway.

[David]

I guess my question would be what purpose would it serve to open up the corridor other than to hunt. We have plenty of areas for snowmachining now, what could it serve, and I am an avid hunter and fisherman, so that is not the reason for my question, just want to see if anyone has a comment that could change my thinking, I think the soilders and natives have enough areas now with out more.

[rocketdoc637]

David,
First of all I take offense to the soldier remark. I am active duty and although there have been some unfortunate incidents up there it is not always soldiers. I have hunted up there a couple of times and know first hand that the crowding and lack of respect for others spreads across all walks of life. Enough on that subject
With that being said I do not want to see that area opened up to snowmachines. It is peaceful and quiet up there and needs to stay that way. It is one of the last places that are like that up here. Like you said there are plenty of other places people can access country with an ATV or snowmachine.
I ride both snowmachines and atvs and am getting a 6 X 6 Ranger and have no desire to use any of them off the Dalton.

Charlie

[dirtyrice]

Yea, I agree with rocket. While I do know that there are plenty of military idiots out there that give us a bad name. There are a lot of poachers, drunks and downright idiots out there who are Alaskan born.

What this issue really means to me is that if you open snow machining up to the Dalton corridor then it will be a caribou slaughter fest all day long during October/November. Fish and game will be working overtime and the Porcupine herd (i think that is the herd up there) will get diminished very fast because you will have everyone in the state driving up the Dalton for easy caribou kills.

I don't know if any of you have gone to Chicken for the winter hunt but I have and its a disgusting display of sportsmanship. Its like a firing squad with caribou as the victim. I think hunting should be a hunt, a challenge and not for the feint of heart who just want to drive a sled right up to an animal and pull the trigger. Thats not hunting, and if you think it is I won't share a camp with you.


-Ken

[john]

Let me disagree with all of you..

I do agree with rocket on the soldier remark, it was uncalled for and deragatory.

On the issue of why open it, this isn't for hunting but access to land. The bill is to open the area from Oct. 1 to April 30 only and still keep out the summer rigs thus preventing any ATV, 6x6 or 4x4's and general hunting from tearing it up. And I am also an avid hunter, just ask my wife any Sept when I take a month off of work and disappear.

What it will do is give us access to areas beyond the corridor that we currently can't access unless were pliots and can fly past that corridor area. I Like that area and would love to be able to enjoy riding it more, but we can't as it now stands. No real reason for that other then to prohibit access. The Craibou are usually out of there by Oct, and moose hunting is closed by then as well, so not an issue.

As we, as snowmachiners, lose more and more of our riding area we need to support any legal action that would help to reverse that and this would be a good opportunity. Note all the access we've lost in the Cantwell area, consider the trails we lose every year from land sales, think about the regulations that are passed every year saying "keep out" unless your a hiker.

I want to be able to ride my sled when the snow is down and not have to drive to Summit or south of Cantwell everytime to do it. I'd also like to see Alaska Lands open to Alaskans. This should be our right as written in the Alaska Consitution and I can think of no reason why the corridor should be closed or only opened to those with special permits.

I've ridden in this area a couple of years and it's a place beautiful to visit, it tough and rough country and not for everyone, but we should at least have the option to do so. Alaska is 65% persent federal lands and only 21% General State land, I say enough, give us access to those lands that are still owned by Alaska.

http://nrm.salrm.uaf.edu/~stodd/AlaskaP ... rship.html

[dirtyrice]

John,

I understand your point and I think the best thing about organizations like the Snow Travelers is fighting for our right to enjoy our sport.

You must admit that a large amount of modification to the regulations on the 26B caribou hunt will have to happen. The caribou are still very much in the area in Oct/Nov, just look on the forums and you will see pics of guys that archery kill every year up there in winter within 1/4 mile of the road.

I'm all for sled access but if they do something to open it then I think they will have to do something like close that area beyond the corridor to hunting after September to prevent rifle hunters from chasing down caribou on sleds. Its a simple fix that way and you can still get your access on sleds.

If they do open it I will be the first to give Atigun pass a run and see how deep the snow gets

-Ken

[REVITUP]

I would have to totally agree with you guys about the soldiers here, a few make a bad name for an otherwise great group of people. Same as it is with everyone who lives here and as it is with snowmachiners in general. Another thing to consider in regards to them opening up this area is the fact that it is going to create more traffic on the road. It is not designed nor maintained for general travel. One could argue that I am biased considering I am looking at this from two points of view, a hunter and someone close to the trucking industry. I can bet that if any of the drivers that make their living on the haul road were asked, they would not want any more traffic on the road. As a hunter, I have been up there in October and there were a few hunters who seemed to ignore the fact that these trucks are trying to get a load somewhere (or home) and neglected to make sure their vehicles weren't an obstruction to the trucks. Personally, I have been in the Tok-Chicken area during the hunt and in the Maclaren Valley area. Neither is a pretty site with the "herd shooting" going on. As much as I hate to see any areas closed to snowmachinig, I won't ask them to open the corridor area simply because it is one of the last places like it in the state. If it were opened, it would turn into another carnival hunt and dangerous to both hunter and truck driver. If there was a way to designate access areas to get across the corridor and enforce it, that would be different.

[David]

First I will appoligise for my wording and my intention was not to be offensive and directed to Soliders. I am a 22 year retired Solider also. With that said, I think everyone has argued the same points I was trying to make at the possible hunting or killing and chasing down animals from motorized vehicles. I agree with the added traffic on the roads and the safety of all concerened. It is as far or farther to go up to the corrorido as it is to cantwell and Summit. Just can't see them opening it up just for Snowmachines, look at the Chena Flood area they can't keep ATV's off the *beep* and they can't keep ATV's off the bicycle path along Badger road during the no motorized time frame. I just thought if they open it up we will have many more problems than we do now.

[paulneva]

I am not a hunter and I am going to agree with John on this one. If the problem is overhunting, there are appropriate game management tools to address that. Closing an area to snowmachines is not an appropriate game management tool.

Paul

[REVITUP]

This wouldn't be closing another area, it would be opening one that has alot more consequences than overhunting. There is a special challenge when going north to hunt that has been ruined in other places. Since it is an archery only hunt, the hunter must take a bowhunters ed class to be certified. Stalking an animal into bow range with no or very little cover adds another challenge to the hunt. My fear would be having unethical hunters chasing caribou to exhaustion if motorized vehicles were allowed.
If and that's a big IF, there was a way to enforce access to the areas out of the 5 mile corridor, I could begin to see opening the area up. I would still have to agree with the truck drivers that the road, as it now is, is not conducive to more traffic.

[Summit800]

There was an article in todays News Miner that stated that the hunting issue has nothing to do with the issue at hand. But you have to wonder if one of the "Save The Enviroment" Extremist groups are using this.

On this same subject, There are a few issues at hand here, Primarily, the land access issue. I cant speak for all of the Members of the FST, but the single biggest reason I was willing to join was not so much for the rides, but to add to the voice that wishes to at least hold on to the land access that we presently have and to allow us more access for the sport that we thoroughly enjoy. For this reason, I think its in everyones best interest to grant access to the corridor. How many will actually ride up there is yet to be seen. Something about dragging you prized sleds at least 150 miles over some realy rough roads does not seem too apealing. That said, I have spent a considerable amount of time on the "Haul Road" and there are some areas that look to be some of the best backcountry riding in the State, if not the country.
The other issue that keeps coming up is that there is concern about the truck trafic on the haul road. While there is good reason for a little concern, I think there are some folks that have WAY too much belief in the History Channel and thier portrayal of the "Dreaded Dalton".
While there are a few Cowboy Truck Drivers on the road, as a whole, these guys are for the most part very professional and courteous to other users of the road. But put yourself it their position, These guys are performing a function in an enviroment that for the most part requires the upmost in concentration and attention, The last thing they need is for a bunch of sled heads in their way.
Its bad enough in the Summer with the tourist traffic, and in the fall with US HUNTERS. But they are willing to put up with all of this to perform their job, that they do so well.
So what we really need is:
A: Open The corridor
B: Create designated trail heads for access
C: Someone open a couple of lodges and fueling stations.
D: Educate the "Non Professional Users" of the road to what a 100,000# truck trailer will do to your family cruiser with $25000.00 in toys in tow, and how best to avoid conflict with the guys trying to scrape out a living on the "Dreaded Dalton"

[mit]

I would have to suggest, that we put a 5 mile corridor on all State highways in the state. If it is good for the Dalton it should be good for all the rest

[irshpryd40]

I would have to suggest, that we put a 5 mile corridor on all State highways in the state. If it is good for the Dalton it should be good for all the rest

I would have to say that is the worst idea I have heard.

Hunting is not the issue. As for the opening for access to Snowmobiles. I do believe that regardless if it is State or Federal land it should be open for Snowmobiles. The foot print a snowmobile leaves would not hurt the land as is not the case for ATV's. We are a snowmobile club. Therefor we should support all things snowmobile. I am not a real political person, but I do believe that every year goes by and we as snowmobilers loose more and more places to ride. Take for example the Yellowstone park. You can ride your loud ass Harley through there, but now they have started to restrict the Snowmobiles through there. Saying it is desturbing wild life. I disagree. We as snowmobilers need to start supporting everything we can to keep the sport we love open so our kids and there kids can enjoy it as well.

I was at the Membership meeting on the 17th and do believe FST voted to support this. I urge everyone to write the state congress rep with a letter of support for this to be passed.

As for the traffic on the Haul Road. Yes it will increase. Do I think it will be a problem? No. Most of the traffic will be on weekends and Holidays and I also believe that people are smart enough to respect the fact that those truckers are there making a living. We all pay taxes so that road is ours just as much as it is theirs.

[cleary]

I wonder how much traffic there is. We spent 5 days on the Dalton over the 4th of July 2007 driving to Prudhoe Bay and back. At times we would go as long as 20 minutes without encountering another vehicle. DOT would now how much truck traffic there is as they have the weigh station at Fox where it all has to check in. If you want to see pictures of our trip go to our website: http://www.clearysummit.com/index.htm and click on "Prudhoe Bay Trip"

[Summit800]

As a rule, there is more truck traffic from about January thru April and quite possibly into May, depending on the temps and the condition of the Ice roads. Thats the only time that many of the more remote sites are accessable. So the oil companies try to get all of the supplies that are needed for the year while the roads are in. I would think that about this time of year would be the best time to ride up there, and it works out that that this is typically the busiest time for truck traffic.